Best Non-Conservatory Universities for music

[chsmike2345]

Like many people, I love music. But, I'm not exactly at the skill where I can make money by playing. So, I'm deciding to double major in music and something else. In your opionion, what are the best Universities that have great music programs and other majors that are highly respectable as well? I know places like Yale, Northwestern, and boston. Another choice could be Rocester for other major and Eastman for music. Feel free to tell me!

[steinwaymodeld]

As you said not conservatory

I won't recommend Julliard then

then for normal university

the best piano team is in
Indiana University, Bloomington(it's always battling with Julliard for the best piano team)

another one is University of Illinois Urbana Champaign(i think it's no.4)

As you said, Northwestern is not bad neither.
But i don't think Yale's piano team is that good.

[jennbo]

columbia university

[thracozaag]

Like many people, I love music. But, I'm not exactly at the skill where I can make money by playing. So, I'm deciding to double major in music and something else. In your opionion, what are the best Universities that have great music programs and other majors that are highly respectable as well? I know places like Yale, Northwestern, and boston. Another choice could be Rocester for other major and Eastman for music. Feel free to tell me!

 
Indiana University
University of Michigan
Yale
...and I have to give a plug to the University of Kansas (don't laugh).  

[BoliverAllmon]

I thought eastman was a conservatory. what do you guys think of it? I have thought of applying there.

boliver

[janice]

Definitely Indiana.  Northwestern ranks high.  I (personally) think that University of Iowa in Iowa City is good.  I'd pick Indiana though.

[thracozaag]

I thought eastman was a conservatory. what do you guys think of it? I have thought of applying there.

boliver

 Eastman's a great school, unfortunately Crapchester sucks.

[rachmaninoffismyfav]

Three Words. Eastern Illinois University

[BoliverAllmon]

I hear that UT and USC have great programs, but seeing that I live in TX and UT did beat the mighty Trojans last night, I am forced to put UT ahead of USC.

[oksanapianist]

University of Wisconsin-Madison has 2 phenominal teachers-
Christopher Taylor and Catherine Kautsky (used to teach at Lawrence University)
Give them a try!

[pita bread]

I hear that UT and USC have great programs, but seeing that I live in TX and UT did beat the mighty Trojans last night, I am forced to put UT ahead of USC.

Quiet you. Don't spread that shameful news.

Doesn't Howard Na study in Texas?

[dinosaurtales]

 
Indiana University
University of Michigan
Yale
...and I have to give a plug to the University of Kansas (don't laugh).  

I'm not laughing!  Kansas has always been big in various musical areas - composition - winds - so it wouldn't surprise me to see a good piano department there.

[dinosaurtales]

Now bear in mind that some of these schools (eastman and perhaps Indiana) might be difficfult to get into on the music side, especially if it's not your only field.  THey can probably fill the books with top students who are solely dedicated to music, so you might want more universities to add to the list that have "good" music departments, and are also stellar in other fields.  What "other fields" are you thinking about studying?

[BoliverAllmon]

Quiet you. Don't spread that shameful news.

Doesn't Howard Na study in Texas?

not sure.


Shameful? HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! If it bring shame to those tree huggin hippies, I am going to. Vince Young pounded USC for 437 all purpose yards, 200 of which were for rushing. The QB ran for 200 yards against you. LOL the unbeatable was beaten. the unstoppable Reggie bush was stopped. RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stevie]

howard studies at UofT

[BoliverAllmon]

tennessee or texas?

[stevie]

ahhaha texas

[pianohopper]

  Eastman's a great school, unfortunately Crapchester sucks.

Eastman, great school though it may be, does not prepare you as much for a performance career, but rather to be a performing teacher.  I mean, their philosophy seems to be "your chances of being a in-demand concert artist are very slim, so we won't bother teaching you how to do that."  Instead, you are prepped to teach and perhaps give a few recitals every year.  Schools like Julliard and Curtis, for example, have connections.  They can get you auditions or into contests, as I am told.  (Koji, am I correct on that?  You seem to have had many opportunities to perform and they have gone very well for you.)  Of course, Eastman has produced great professionals, but I would be interested to see the rate of Eastman vs. Julliard or Curtis. 

University of Michigan is an excellent school for music.  Of course, you don't have to go to one of the "best" schools to run into a good teacher and succeed... 

[pizno]

As posted above, Christopher Taylor, of UW-Madison, is a genius.  I'd study under him any day.  He has a rare brain.

[iumonito]

I went to Indiana and loved it.  I went there as a graduate student having had my undergrad in something else (law) and with no pretentions of having a career as a soloist.  Bloomington is strong in several other areas, particularly biology-pre-med.

One thing to find out is whether non-majors have access to the good teachers, as it is often the case at many big places that non-majors receive most or all of their training from TAs.  At IU each major teacher has a quota of non-major students whom they are expected to teach, and I felt there was a very collegial atmosphere (probably stemming from the fact that most everybody is very aware that we all were at different stages of our development and have different goals) between major and non-major students.

Good luck (and good thinking on your part),
H

P.S. Koji, I love Sequeira Costa, a teacher at Kansas, great artist.

[kghayesh]

I had a question. I know it is a dumb question but i really would like to know the answer..

What is the difference between a conservatory and a music university

[zheer]

What is the difference between a conservatory and a music university

   A lot, i have recently applied to the worst music university on planet earth, all other universitys have told me to F*** off. I now keep a F*** you card in my back pocket and flash it at all music conservatorys.

[dinosaurtales]

My modest understanding of such things is that at a music conservatory you would study only music - performance, theory, history, chamber music, etc etc.  At a music school as part of a university you would be a student of the university, and would take on their course of study, implying required courses - languages, math, literature, etc with the requirements for your music department as an add-on to that. 

OK you conservatory guys, how close am I?

[maryruth]

University of Puget Sound, Tacoma Washington.  It's my alma mater.  It's a wonderful small liberal arts university with a great music program among other things--expensive, though.  www.UPS.edu

[brokenagraffe]

howard studies at UofT

it's UNT. with vladimir viardo.

[harmelodic]

Like many people, I love music. But, I'm not exactly at the skill where I can make money by playing. So, I'm deciding to double major in music and something else. In your opionion, what are the best Universities that have great music programs and other majors that are highly respectable as well? I know places like Yale, Northwestern, and boston. Another choice could be Rocester for other major and Eastman for music. Feel free to tell me!

chsmike2345,

I think the most well-known and respected non-conservatory music programs are at UNT, Indiana, and USC (not necessarily in that order either).  That being said, I would be giving serious thought to the "something else" part of your future college experience.  Once you narrow that down - which is no easy task in itself and most likely will evolve/change over time - I think that will help with the decision making process.  For example Harvard is a great school, but has no music program to speak of.

Off the top of my head, here are some considerations:

1)  What do you hope to do with music?  Do you want to be a performance major (and double major in something else) and see how far you can push yourself as a musician?  Bear in mind there are other ways of making money in music besides being a solo performer.

2)  How do you see yourself making a living 10 years from now?  I know that's a question that most likely can't be answered, but at least you can start narrowing things down.  Do you like working with people?  Or are you more of an analytic problem-solver? etc.

3)  How is college being paid for?  Loans, scholarships, financial aid, etc.  Public school v. private school, etc.

Anyhow, good luck with your journey and let us know what you decide on.

[BoliverAllmon]

something to think about also is this. I think smaller schools can help make better musicians. In smaller schools or at least less hectic schools, teachers are going to be more open to just "chatting" about music. I have learned so much about music by just sitting with teachers and picking their brains. If you are in a super fast-paced situation though, these opportunities will not present themselves.

[dinosaurtales]

Another thing to think about is:  a fancy school name is not necessary to get a good education.  if you have good teachers and you work hard, you'll get a hell of an education and it will show.  Example:  I live in Portland, Oregon.  For the rest of the music world there is "nothing" here.  But I have been taking classes at Portland State unversity, which has excellent "personality".  The instructors really want everybody to succeed.  That makes all the difference.  So don't ignore 'regular" places with a good group.

[orlandopiano]

Texas-Austin
Michigan
Indiana
Cincinnati
Florida State (must plug my undergraduate)

Also, I've heard some great things about Rice University, particularly in regards to theory/composition.

[mike_lang]

.

[jlh]

 
Indiana University
University of Michigan
Yale
...and I have to give a plug to the University of Kansas (don't laugh).  

The University of Kansas does have a great piano dept.  I went there for undergrad.  Also, Arizona State is quickly rising to the top as well -- this year there there was an international piano competition there.

[iumonito]

I've heard that NewsWeek tends to rank Indiana University #1 above Juilliard and Curtis in general as a school of music.  Other good universities for music include Michigan-Ann Arbor, Northwestern University, and University of Illinois.

That's cute, but I went to Indiana and have friends at both Julliard and Curtis and I can tell you, Curtis is in a league of their own.

[contrapunctus]

I am suprised no one mentioned Vanderbilt University. It has one of the top conservatories in the country inside the school. Since it is in the school you can double major or minor in something else.

[henrah]

This topic has been a great help to me also, although they are all American and I live in England. I would prefer a small-sized university or conservatory as, like Dinosaurtales said, they are more likely to want you to succeed and have more of a chance to just talk to the teachers. I would very much like to find a friend in teachers as it would be wonderful to share musical thought, at the same time that they are teaching you. I would also like to find a teacher that doesn't press his/her techniques and methods of dynamics, colour and the such, and instead helps you to find your own way, giving advice on the way but not as a direction.

Does anyone know of any conservatories or universities in Canada? I absolutely love Canada and doing piano there would be a wonderful opportunity to take.
Henrah

[pianistimo]

dear koji,  why does crapchester suck?  many of the teachers are julliard grads.  are you talking about performance opportunities?  i really like the idea of the new music building having steinways, too.  maybe you're talking from a teacher's standpoint- as i seem to recall that they don't have a lot of funding to pay the teachers what they are worth.  ps i really like the dean of crapchester - he's funny.  and, really smart.  also, i like the bus rides into philly to hear concerts.  that's cool.  and, they're free to music students.

the only thing i've found is that if you are mentally challenged, almost any school is going to tax you.  better to go somewhere than nowhere.  *remember the first day, and sneaking a look at the campus map.  where am i now?  or all the walking you did when you didn't know the shortcuts.  now i walk on the lawn all the time.

ps i like crapchesters libraries.  they have many old old books (though quite dusty) and much piano lit. is available and FINGERED by julliard trained teachers.  sometimes you even get notes and stuff that fall out of books and you just say 'wow' i've got to peruse this stuff just for the notes people leave in them.

and, crapchester's main library has a LOT of music journals.  of course, i've never attended eastman or julliard and think it would blow my mind.  the julliard library and bookstore.  and barnes and noble right across the street.  how could you go wrong?  suppose that you get to hear lots and lots of good music.

oh, and samuel barber's house is right next to crapchester.  crapchester has the highest percentage of good looking girls/guys if you are really going for the gold.  the nightlife is constant, though (as i've driven home after practicing around 11 pm and still see guys and girls out walking around), and perhaps distracting.  alas, the sidewalks and dorms are TERRIBLE at crapchester.  they are old and dilapidated.  if they improve the dorms and all to the quality of the music building, it wouldn't be so crappy.  if i were a student that had to live on campus, i'd ask for the better student housing that's about 1/2 mile away.

take a look at new music building here:    www.wcupa.edu/CVPA/som/future.html
ask for dr. cranmer or dr. veleta.  they are amazing amazing piano teachers!

[cherub_rocker1979]

Temple University in Philadelphia where Hamelin went for his Master's.

[pianistimo]

it's a great school in a crappy area of town, though.  always a trade off.  you see this really nice looking school and across the street, ghetto. at crapchester, you have this really crappy school in a really nice area of town.  (and the firemen respond really quickly, unless it's just a pedestrian accident).

[sharon_f]

dear koji,  why does crapchester suck? 

Are you sure he was referring to West Chester? I thought he was referring to Rochester.

[pianistimo]

oh.  rochester.  yes.  i see.   

[jehangircama]

Boris Berman is at Yale. and he's a good pianist. so isn't yale a good place for the piano, especially as a secondary subject?

[jlh]

Boris Berman is at Yale. and he's a good pianist. so isn't yale a good place for the piano, especially as a secondary subject?

Good point.  The quality of your education is directly related to who you study with, and Boris Berman is an awesome teacher and great pianist. 

[pita bread]

Good point.  The quality of your education is directly related to who you study with, and Boris Berman is an awesome teacher and great pianist. 

Meh, his Scriabin is like Brendull's Beethoven.

[kaiwin]

Indiana is one of the top ranking schools. I was born there i should know 

[m]

Boris Berman is at Yale. and he's a good pianist. so isn't yale a good place for the piano, especially as a secondary subject?

Yale is a highly academic school. Besides, if you want to forget how to play piano along with getting some weird ideas about music, you can apply straight to Mr. Berman's studio.

[bartolomeo_]

St. Olaf College, in Minnesota, has an excellent music program.  The standards for music majors are very high particularly for those majoring in performance rather than pedagogy or composition.  However they do encourage non-majors to be involved in the music program either as electives or a minor field of study.  They are private and are affiliated with the Lutheran church, though many students are not Lutheran.

[mike_lang]

Indiana has Andre Watts, Menahem Pressler, Arnaldo Cohen, and Emile Naoumoff.  Does it get better?

[arensky]

Yale is a highly academic school. Besides, if you want to forget how to play piano along with getting some weird ideas about music, you can apply straight to Mr. Berman's studio.

Could you elucidate? I studied with him for a couple of years, and did not experience this. My experience as his student was like jlh's assesment. Of course these are often matters of opinion and subjective.

As for Yale, I believe that for music it is only a graduate school. IOW they do not offer an undergraduate performance degree but a BA in music, which would entail loads of non-musical coursework. Not good for intensive single-minded practice. As an undergraduate there you would probably study with a graduate student. I could be mistaken about this, however.

[jlh]

To be sure, I was never Mr. Berman's student,  so my assessment of him is soley based on reading his book and hearing his recordings. 

Sounds kind of discouraging for BM-minded pianists to know that they wouldn't likely be studying with a professor if they go to Yale...

[arensky]

To be sure, I was never Mr. Berman's student,  so my assessment of him is soley based on reading his book and hearing his recordings. 

Sounds kind of discouraging for BM-minded pianists to know that they wouldn't likely be studying with a professor if they go to Yale...

I don't know for sure, I was his student at another school. Interested people should contact Yale directly for the info.

[pianistimo]

ok.  the new music building is almost complete at west chester university - and the dean of music is very very nice man (and married vicariously to a beautiful lady who works at steinway hall in nyc) so we have ALL NEW STEINWAYS!!! in the new music building.

that said, i also have met a choral and orchestral conductor back in california (and worked under him) that i believe studied at indiana university.  i think he was taking piano and decided to switch to conducting.  (if you're online - excuse me talking about you)  anwya, his level of musicality has been unsurpassed by anyone i've met at the community college or uni.  suppose that part is talent - but indiana must have been good for him.  plus, you have to think about LIBRARY very hard.  in fact, if i were you - whatever you are interested in - make sure they have a library to support it.  indiana seems the place to go for both performance/teaching.

i will admit that though wcu has a wonderful library - it wouldn't be the same in all areas (though wcu is barber's hometown) as julliard or eastman.  but, wcu is affordable (or used to be).  and, the science dept. is supposed to have some excellent profs. and they have a great language program, too.  i think they offer some unusual things at wcu and class sizes are low so you can actually talk with your professors.  they also have a new flight program that has interactive stuff - either at the uni in anchorage, or the airport, that they drive to.  don't know if anyone's looking to be a pilot.  my son is interesting in flying.

surprisingly, i must put in a plug for fairbanks and anchorage alaska (university of alaska).  if you live there more than a year  - you get oil revenue check for $500? or so.  and, they have an AMAZING engineering program.  lots of really highly skilled engineers come out of alaska.  and, the class sizes are growing but still lower there than elsewhere.  probably why they are so good - because of interacting more with prof's.

music therapy is a growing field, and i know a girl who is studying at temple uni for a music therapy degree.  i think they do make pretty good money, too.  not sure how it all works.  temple has an EXCELLENT choral and conducting program, too.  i just went to kimmel center and heard 'belshazzar's feast' by william walton? anyway - it is extrememly difficult to sing and they pulled it off like it was nothing!  it was totally amazing. 

side note - did you know the philadelphia orchestra has radically changed!!! they are all like 18-25 year olds!  i was expecting old people - but they've either all died or retired.  (unless they split the orchestra up that night?)  amazing orchestra.